Hello

I was wondering if anyone could give many any insight into the pro's and cons of baseboard heaters versus a high efficiency gas furnace? I have been pricing the high efficiency furnaces out and they are pricey, especially considering I have 2 furnaces to replace( one heats basement 1600SQFT, and the other for the main floor 1600SQFT. We have just installed the latest and greatest efficient wood inset into our existing fireplace, which can handle the upstairs without the furnace kicking in (Although perhaps at -30 it may need a boost) We plan on having a high efficiency furnace installed for the main floor, as we need the fan from the furnace to distribute the heat from the wood stove throughout the upstairs through the ducting. I was thinking for the downstairs, however to get rid of the furnace, insulate the heck out of the walls down there, replace the windows with triple pane models and heat the space with baseboards. We are planning to suite out the basement, so we cannot have the furnace from upstairs linked to the downstairs ducting, as the city wants independent heat sources for separate living areas(households) Any insights or input will be greatly appreciated. Thankyou.

I wouldn't consider baseboard heaters for any but the most efficient of houses. Heat from electricity must be extracted from a fossil fuel (usually) at 30%-50% efficiency, then delivered to your home at 90% efficiency. So you'll be heating with about 30% efficiency. Sure enough, electricity is about 3 times the price of natural gas!

On the other hand, even a mid-efficient natural gas furnace is 80% efficient. You'll save money with any new natural gas furnace vs. electric heating.

That said, you could consider a 90% efficient furnace for the basement - when I bought mine it was $1000 cheaper than a 95% efficient one. Or, given that you have wood heat upstairs and that heat rises, why don't you replace the basement furnace instead of the upstairs one? Your upstairs furnace would almost never kick in.

Hi,

i was wondering if anyone knows if there is some kind of reputable "standard" by which to grade canadian "green" companies... basically i wanna find a list of the "top 10/100".

is there even such a thing?

thank you.

Hi,

I will soon be renovating my basement and am interested in possibly insulating by creating a cavity (framing a 2x4 wall in from the concrete) and filling it in with cellulose like they did in the net zero homes. Do you think this would be feasible to do in a 1950's home? What kinds of concerns might I have about insulating in this way? Any comments would be much appreciated. Thanks.

That's probably a fine way to insulate a basement, but I have to tell you about something I just found at the Home Renovation Show last weekend. It's insulating using blown closed cell foam, and it's superior in every way.

It has a great R value per inch (R7), it forms it's own vapour barrier, and it completely seals any possibility of drafts or air leaks. It's very easy to install (they do it) and it's fast.

On the downside, it's not the cheapest. According to what they told me it's about twice as much money as conventional fibreglass.

Check out this website: www.whyfoamisbetter.com

The company is called EnviroFoam, and they're here in Edmonton at 780-292-4742. There's also at least one more company in Edmonton that does it, I didn't get their name but I saw them at the show. There may be more yet, so you should probably do some web searching; maybe someone else is a little less costly.

No, I don't work for them. I'm thinking of getting them to insulate my basement, and I got a quote from them. It's a little more money than I was hoping, but I'm still probably going to go with it because it's such a high quality product.

Good luck

I used envirofoam around my basement and like it. Other products such as walltite may be as good and I have some of that around my mainfloor. i am sceptical about some enviro claims, yes, envirofoam may have some soy and recycled content, but how much and are not the gases from these and other products just as bad despite the soy and recycling? i don't know. It should also protect the concrete from much of the freeze/ thaw cycles and allow it to last longer. My eco contribution was to put this over an existing, 50 yr old foundation, to save on rebuilding costs (and, in essence recycle it to a better foundation on the spot). though not just intended for that purpose, it should be resistant to water, almost water proof perhaps, so it also sealed a few nearly vertical cracks a few feet in lenghth. i saved money not having to seal them another way. one national research council type study you can find by google suggests these sort of sprayfoams (higher density, closed cell) can do well under the ground and resist water. the air seal too is near perfect and this is worth money.

I did the 2 inches outside the foundation (above and below grade so gotta parge the above grade) they recommended and added some cheaper insulation on top in most places. it made an instant difference in the temp of the uninsulated concrete wall in the furnace room (when partly done, the right side was insulated and warm, the left was not done and cool when about 4 C outside). the uninsulated laundry room became much warmer and i can close most of the basement vents and keep the basement warm (heat likely radiates directly from the furnace to the basement, not just from the vents). this allows the concrete mass to be a heat sink inside the heated space.

The cost of excavating around the foundation with some companies is outrageous (many say $20K plus for that and replacing weeping tile). I found a guy (granted less efficient than a whole team from a company) who would do it with a small excavator for under $5,000 including install of new weeping tile which needed to be done. You must put up with having to redo all the landscaping immediately around the home for this. Mine was badly sloping into the foundation anyway, causing occasional minor water issues.

As for someone above filling a 2x4 cavity with cellulose, I am not sure it is worth the effort (mess too?) when cellulose is only R3.2 or 3.5 (some claim a bit more) and a 2x4 is really 1.5 x 3.5, this might get you R 12 or so. Not bad for cellulose which may be the cheapest insulator by far. I have not seen it recommended for interior basement walls when rigid foam can easily be r4 or r5 (pink or blue stuff). rigid might be more resistant to possible moisture issues. You would need much less framing for some ways of installing rigid insulation. some high density white rigid foam is much cheaper but not as easy to cut and only about r4 or r4.2 compared with r 5 for pink or blue.

oh, i have heard outrageous claims (i.e. performs like R30 or 40 my arse) for that foil reflective stuff but no one with any reputation seems to endorse it.

Insulating outside the foundation is much better but more expense and hassle. it cost my just over $3,000 installed for the foam alone and the basement is twice as large as a small home as it is a bungalow about 60 ft by 27 ft. the digging cost more. envirofoam and many such companies quote about $3 a sq ft for 2 inches, about $4 or $4.20 for 3 inches. pink rigid foam is about 90 cents a sq ft for R 7.5 (1.5 inches), so $1.80 would be the cost for a similar R 15 or so WITHOUT LABOUR. labourers seem to quote at least $1 up to $2 a sq ft to install most things and it would not seal as well as envirofoam.

one net zero related engineer said they did not insulate outside the basement in riverbend but he might have preferred that.

the only easy calculator i have ever found for determining the value of improving insulation is here: http://www.cellulose.org/HomeOwners/CalculateSavings.php

[if you see a better one, please post]

it assumes a value for the cost of natural gas per "therm" you might need to convert that to GJ, a value you can find on line (something like .1763, look it up). it showed me that going over and even approaching R 20 provides a diminishing return. it is more wothwhile to get close to that everywhere and air seal every where, rather than having a lump of r 30 or r 40 and poor windows and doors. i.e. the return for going from r17 to r 22 over 300 sq ft might only be about $40 (at old higher natural gas prices) but the cost could be many hundreds if using rigid insulation). similarly, buy good windows, esp. well installed and airsealed but going from r4 windows to r 8 might cost far more than spending the money elsewhere.

I'min the same situation. I would like to insulate my basement. I'm not sure if I should insulate it the usual way or if I should do to another way. I'm even thinking if using the insulating panels. I suspect fiberglass is probably the cheapest. I would like to insulate more than what was recommended R-20. I'm doing an retrofit eco-energy plan.

Has anyone tried the Geen DIY solar pannel kit? They claim you can make and install your own panels
for less then $200. Sounds wonderful, but, the website gives me all the wrong feelings. http://www.greendiyenergy.com/
Thanks, sam

Sam

I seems to be really hard to get an independant review of the book as all the links seem to lead back to the site. From what little I have read, it seems to be a good book about renewable energy, but the claims of cheap solar panels are not true. They want you to source broken panels and rebuild them, or build your own solar thermal panels. I am all for "do it yourself" but it would be difficult to build a flat plate collector that is anthing close to a Viessman 200F.

For anyone wanting simple & concise information about renewable energy, post-carbon transportation, and lifestyle choices, download the free ebook from this link:

http://www.withouthotair.com/

This is written by Dr. David MacKay from Cambridge University, for the purpose of clearing some of the BS & Greenwash from what we hear everyday about sustainable living. I urge anyone who is interested to check it out, you'll be surprised how easy & entertaining it is to read; from beginner to expert, I'm sure you'll all come away with a clearer picture of the way forward.

cheers,
Stu

Hey, I'm curious if there are any lists of ethical/vegan/green shoe and clothing retailers IN EDMONTON. It seems I'm stuck with ordering shoes off the internet from the US. Thanks!

You could try Lucid Lifestyle on Whyte Avenue.

Conrad

Hello everyone:

Does anyone have the Annual Climate Bin Data for Edmonton? I'm doing some energy analysis for building in Edmonton, and I would go with this simple method, instead of energy simulation.

Thanks

Glebe Gladstone

I have a spreadsheet that contains, for each day from Jan 1st 2000, the following information:
- Max Temp (°C)
- Min Temp (°C)
- Mean Temp (°C)
- Heating Deg Days (°C)
- Cooling Deg Days (°C)
- Total Rain (mm)
- Total Snow (cm)
- Total Precip (mm)
- Snow on Ground (cm)
- Dir of Max Gust (10's Deg)
- Speed of Max Gust (km/h)

If this is what you're looking for I can post it to the site.

Ken

Recently in Lethbridge,a speaker from Edmonton,Gordon Howell said we "can stop buying natural gas by switching to free Solar Power."I am wondering how easy is that? You think the big commercial suppliers of gas will just let you do that!I would like to have feed-back from people who have actually tried doing that.

Hi there, does anyone have an idea of who sells eco friendly house building materials(ie: solar panels, appliances, furnaces, windows/doors)?In Edmonton or in the province of alberta?

I wrote a posting on my experience with local companies. See the May 21st 2009 posting at

http://greenedmonton.ca/node/360

I was on holiday in BC and my husband's uncle had a device attached to his hot water tank that beeped every time hot water was used in the house. He installed it when his teenage daughters began taking long showers. Its purpose is educational- however the beeping is so annoying that I even found myself hesitant to use the hot water for longer than a few seconds! Hot water for laundry was out of the question, for sanity's sake.

He couldn't remember the details of the product- does anyone else recognize what this product may be and where to get it (Earth's General didn't know).

Thanks,
Carissa Halton

Check out the books available at www.buildingscience.com They have design and construction advice and details for all North American climate zones, one of which covers Edmonton. They also have a regular email listserve with useful special topics.

Gary

We want to build a passive solar superinsulated home outside of Edmonton and don't want Natural Gas. Any thoughts on a propane furnace since we would need ducting for the HRV system anyways?

Would a masonary stove be overkill?

I'm in the process of rebuilding an old farm house in the south of Portugal that's built with double brick wall (It does get chilly and damp in the winter months),and am thinking of applying spray foam in the space (void) between the two walls, can anyone advise on the best way to apply the foam given that I will be demolishing and re-building one half of the the wall, should I spray in sections as the new wall is being re-built or should I re-build first and poke holes through the wall and then apply the foam.

Hi all, just found this community and FYI am selling my super insulated house in north central Edmonton. It is MLS listing # MLS® #: E3263333 and has had an average annual heating and hot water cost (combined) of 54 GJ over the last 5 years. Have letters from Direct Energy confirming, this is 1/4 the gas cost of the average home in Edmonton. Google that MLS number and you too could be making a dent...

Eric...

Hello!
Just a quick Hello and FYI from the City Arts Centre that our Fall season of classes is starting up soon! There's a class here for everyone and every age (Age 0 - 100+). If you're ever wanted to try out some new Vegetarian or Vegan receipes or learn to shop at an Asian Super Market, learn how to make your makeup and soaps and lotions or try your hand at some cool Eco Art check us out! You won't be dissapointed. Classes are held at the City Arts Centre in the Garneau neighbourhood as well as various other City of Edmonton Leisure Centres.

The City Arts Centre
10943-84 Avenue
Call 311 or visit: www.edmonton.ca/cityarts

Are you the bastards that are trying to stop Global Warming? Why don't you go back to Greenland where you belong!

I sold my place in Greenland, so I'm not sure where I'd live.

My wife is originally from New Brunswick - that's kind of close to Greenland. Is it OK if I move there?